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From: [email protected] (Nightfly)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: dystopia, at last...
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 1995 13:14:12 GMT
Organization: Access Evolution - Process the Future
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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[email protected] (Kronos Traveller) wrote:

>Ah, at last a response. First, Omar. Yeah, it's true. Most of NASA in the
>sixties were White, males. So, what. They were not my only heroes. A lot of
>my heroes were women (Marie Currie, Valentina Tereshkova, Harriet Tubman),
>blacks (George Washington Carver, Wilt Chamberlin, Martin Luther King),
>hispanic (Pancho Villa, Carlos Santana), Indians (Ghandi, Bose, Chandrasakhar),
>etc. This is a more complete list (though not total, I refuse to waste the
>band width) of my heroes growing up. Einstien was white too, am I supposed
>to ignore him? I mentioned NASA becuase the obvious relationship between the

In my experience it is very dangerous to bring race into a discussion
about anything other than race its self. I can't recall Omar's
response very well, but although I disagree almost entirely with your
stance, to critize it because of your use of NASA as an example,
purely because it was/is almost entirely made up of middle class
whites was foolish, but as I said I can't accuratly recall the post.

Only to another racist would a white saying his hero is white be a
racist, the same is true if you replace white with coloured. Daft.

>exploration of outer space and the push into a future that would be more utopian
>a better place to live, free of racism and sexism and politicism. As to the
>thread about dystopia, I have in fact been reading the postings by the group
>(Sourcerer, Nightfly, et. al.) and the point that I failed to make in my
>(very admitedly) emotional response is that talk is cheap. Sure, I realize that

I don't know, here it can cost you your self image

>you're trying to come to some kind of conclusion about what dystopia is. More
>power to you. But, while we all discuss what's what and what's not, we are in
>effect giving the dystopics the opening they need. The recent elections of '94

I would have labelled you a "dystopic", if only because you seem
convinced that we are heading towards one unless we do something about
it.

>placed the republicans in charge of congress with a mere 20% of the populace
>giving them that mandate. 20%. That's pathetic. And I am not insinuating that

Is that 20% of the populace who were eligible to vote, or 20% of the
entire polulation, big difference.

I like to think that the reason that so many people don't bother is
because they are dissolutioned with the whole Governmental process,
and as I've said before, its about time the people who can do
something about it do. I don't mean by voting or protesting etc, but
by making a concerted effort to make their own lives better and not at
the detriment of others.

>nobody in this group voted. I am sure that proportionally this group had a high
>turn out. But the apathy of this population is mirrored by the group
>disscussion of what dystopia is and is not. I also hope that the current
>oppressiveness fails. But, history is replete with revolutions that relpace
>oppressive regimes with more oppressive regimes. In short, let's talk and work
>towards a utopia rather than discussing what makes (and who's responsible) for
>dystopia.

How do we know what to work for? Define your definition of an Utopia,
not the dictionary entry, but how you perceive an Utopia to be like,
guarenteed it will not be acceptable to everyone and we end up with:

"But, history is replete with revolutions that relpace
oppressive regimes with more oppressive regimes."

Granted we should all be working towards a "better future", but
assuming that the world going to be better off because of your ideas
is no different to how Hitler perceived his actions or Stalin,
Napolean, Gengis Khan, Fidel Castro (the list of ever so dodgy
idealists goes on for ever.......)

The only solution that I believe can work (note I didn't say will), is
if everyone stops blaming someone else for their shitty life, there
are very few people in Europe and North America who can do that with
any justification. And please don't assume I'm including the former
Yugolavia or the disabled/mentally handicapped because I'm not, I'm
talking about able bodied men and women who hope for nothing and will
get just that.

We are living in the right place at the right time, (esp those with
net access) there has never been a more opportunity filled future on
the horizon, lets stop whining and get on with it.






"So let me get this straight once and for all,
this dystopia thingy, whats it all about then?"

/\/ightfly

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